Sunday, October 21, 2012

Shamsher Malik




Page 4 - SD - Shamsher as the Knight in Shining Armor

Tanu - Shamsher as the Epitome of Fatherhood




Episode 19th October 2012 : Who is Shamsher Malik? A real life hero ?
http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3249111

It was not a beautiful episode which I wanna watch again. It was just the needed move to the next track.  Shamsher Malik Vs RK.  My title for the new track will be .. I don't have any... But I need to understand Shamsher Malik today, who was never important for me in the story until today when I saw Rishabh and Madhubala Kundra together were fighting against him, foiling his attempt to kill RK.

I am certainly not sure what CVs have in their mind when turning Shamsher Malik into a killer. Seriously a killer  ? Confused Where is all this going to ? I am not going into the very much mundane analysis of the obvious...the impact of this on Madhubala when the two most important men in her life are pitted against each other. For now the reality for her through the viewer eyes is this:

One is saving the other though he was the cause for the other's dying
One is killing the other because he was the cause for his ruin.

RK's treatment No.1 of Shamsher - Fair and Square
Beat him enough that he is unable to get up and yet cannot die . Then leave him to die. Who does that ? What triggers that ? Shamsher tried to assault him. And the way he could beat up all the security around RK, Shamsher was very much in for brutal vendetta. 

RK's treatment No.2 of Shamsher - as a Pawn
Use him and his situation to get even with his so-called daughter Madhubala. Mind it the pawn was not important, it was the prize that was coveted by RK.

RK's treatment No.3 of Shamsher - Taking care of Sasurji
Somewhere down the line, RK had accepted that Madhubala is his wife, then it becomes fair and reasonable to take care of his Sasurji. How is that any different from him taking care of the Bhatias ? Not much. isn't it ?

Shamsher's treatment No.1 of RK - before his vegetable State
You ruined our lives. You finished us. I will finish you. 

Shamsher's treatment No.2 of RK - after he comes out of his vegetable state. 
You ruined our lives. You finished us. I will finish you. 

Isn't it strange that Shamsher seems to have been in a frozen state with only one thought  "I want to finish you" ? Is there something more to it ? Something more than just finishing RK ? Ofcourse, the CVs are not going to go so deep as me...but then I would like to know what makes a man lose his reason and take Godly matters into their hands. 

What makes RK lose his reason and take Godly matter of teaching Madhubala into his hands. He is self-professed diabolical man and he has every right to do it. Agree! we have seen that. 

What makes Shamsher lose his reason and take Godly matters such as killing a monster into his hands. He is a hero, a knight in shining armor and has to do something to save the honour of the people depending on him. Hmmm! I can see that. 

Now can I have the title ? The Knight in the shining armor versus the Monster

Whether RK is a monster or not. We have analysed a lot. We know what he is.

Is Shamsher truly a hero ? Truly a knight in shining armor ?

He saved Padmini and her daughters once when Balraj the monster was there to kill them. A black and white act of the hero versus the villain which Shamsher got to play at real when he had been playing the same act in make-believe world of cinema as the stunts-man. Playing with weaponry, those fights are part of his every day life. And the same he could use as his skills to save the women in trouble in real life.

What was he actually before he became the hero for the three women?

An actor who left his native place in Punjab, came to Mumbai with dreams of becoming a hero on the celluloid. He couldn't be successful. He just ended up being a stuntsman. Not even earned a chance to act as a villain. Did it hit him hard when RK taunted, "Sasurji aapko to villain hona chaahiye tha filmon mein ?" Could be !

Somewhere between the failed attempts at becoming the hero, he had his peace with becoming the hero to the three women. And he truly revelled in this role-play of his. A savior.

And when he fails to save the second time, what kicks into his thinking once he gets back his consciousness.
zang lage auzaar, dawaiyon ka gulaam, kamzor shamsher lad raha hai, kamzor baap lad raha hai

So that is our Shamsher. He is seeing himself as a failure and it gets magnified when he is pitted against a man who is a HERO on the celluloid which used to be his dream, which now is the dream passed on towards his elder daughter. Projections of his sister and his dreams on Trishna...to turn her into a reel life heroine.

What was he citing his reasons to hate RK?
Beti ki sagaai tod di
badi beti ke sapno ko apne mehenge jooton ke tale pees pees ke phaila diya
choti beti ko bandhua biwi bana ke rakha hua hai

Just as the woman (Padmini) he saved, lives in her idyllic world, so is Shamsher Malik who refuses to let go of the dreamy world which talks about fair men standing against evil men and Hero needs to vanquish the Villain. 

Just like RK,  Shamsher doesn't carry any reason on his head when he tries to become the killer. He has to be the story-book hero. However that was the first time. He definitely was the hero when he barged into the studio in broad day-light and confronted RK.

But the second time around, may be the thought is there to be the hero, but his act is not of the knight in shining armor. Or is there you think ? Why the attacks in a masked manner ? Because the opponent is all too powerful ?

Whatever...But did he see that his daughter, whose honor he was trying to save was actually fighting to save his opponent. Does it sound wierd to him ? Of course it does. Hence these words
Jaane usne kya jaado kiya hai
Woh jiye mare kuch phark nahin padta
Mujhe sirf apne bachchon ki parwaah hai, jo is samay bikhri hui hai, jo sirf main sametna chaahta hoon

Coz once he is able to finish the monster, his daughter will be free from the magical cage that has totally changed her beyond his recognition.

Well that was our dreamy Real life Hero Shamsher Malik against the Reel life hero RK.

What an irony that Real life hero act is so unreasonable when viewed from prevailing laws of human society, as seen in conventional ethics. Knights do not exist. One doesn't take law into their hands.  Shamsher cannot think beyond this and perhaps that is the reason, it never occurred to him that his stay-put hero-act is not actually sanctioned by society which RK so easily ridicules him for. He takes care of a woman that is not his wife and raises two girls like his own daughters. Does Shamsher understand the ignominy that Padmini and his daughters may have gone through in their life on account of his knight status ?

What an irony that the RK who is a monster actually in real life takes heed of societal laws and does not kill Shamsher and when decides to destroy the woman, he provides her with a dignified status sanctioned by society. He makes her his wife. RK taunts Shamsher ''Aapki naajayez beti to Jaayez Biwi banaya hai maine" Does that hurt Shamsher in any manner ?


We all know why RK is a Reel hero. Because in real life he could not be a hero to his father..

I am caught in this uninteresting situation, forced to watch the two men. Until the two men understand each other, that they are mirror images of each other, that they both are the heroes in real life as well, they are not going to be at peace. Each needs to know the story of the other. Another epic story there. Can Madhubala please build a bridge between the two to end the vendetta ? Please ...

Episode 24th October 2012 : Shamsher - an obsessed guy to kill RK. The act of killing more appealing than anything. A Raskolnikov
http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3255317&TPN=3


SHAMSHER MALIK
I asked a rhetorical question the other day if Shamsher Malik was indeed a hero ? A knight in shining armour ? One of our friends Tanu said, he is a father and all of this makes sense.

However I cannot agree to it.  A hero ...doesn't avoid. Doesn't run around hiding. He will instead face situations and manuver them to his objective as he has the rightful purpose. The purpose gives him courage to face people...even people like the police. He will take everything in a daring way ...as hero always does a "Sar pe kafan baandha hai maine"

I found Shamsher, totally a lack-lustre character and instead felt like he himself described him ...a rusted weapon.  He seemed like Raskolnikov trying to test himself how far he can go... The act of killing is more appealing to him than anything else, but he drives himself with the fuel of rage that he feels at his daughter being dishonored. He is just another obsessing guy to kill another successful man. Raskolnikov all the way...Unhappy

He does seem to say that police can catch him when he is finished with the job, but the obsession is clearly there in his eyes as the man fails to read his daughter's eyes. That's no good when you treat your daughter just as a princess and not as a person, who has heart, can err in her actions too and can do things inexplicable as they are. I hope there is a good track coming up to redeem Shamsher without tampering RK and Madhu's relationship except that they are separated out of necessity but united in heart still. Just my hope against the whole insanity.
Shri devi,

I couldn't respond to your previous post on Shamsher...Now I understand it and it makes
so much sense.
 You are right...Shamsher is no hero...never in the reel and not in the real world either...
As you say a hero needs to have a rightful purpose..Even RK when blinded by anger 
never crossed a few boundaries.He was nasty to their family but, their wierd equations called 
for it...Shamsher does seem to carry the 'want to be a hero' syndrome and
RK happened to provide him the opportunity.He doesn't see any reason thereafter 
and just want to enact his role of being the Knight in the shining armor as you so rightly 
pointed out...His vengeance could be justified if he has seen Madhu being abused and was
not indulging in repeated planned attacks...  

What a strange situation for Madhu...A person she once considered to be a beast has made a
place equivalent to God and the person whom she placed on the pedestal is turning out
to be a beast...Both of Madhu and RK's fathers are cowards.One is ready to kill in the name 
of his daughter where as the other killed himself for reasons yet unknown leaving our 
superstar RK to be the one and only HERO both in reel and real world Wink


By Dovesview

SD: Indepth analysis as always. Loved it! You know what? The sheer enormity of your deep analysis leaves me so wowed that I don't know where and what to start commenting on from your takes. I liked what you have to say about the character Shamsher. I kind of like the parallels you draw of the two intriguing characters, RK and Malik. Although I do agree to you to some extent, I feel a bit differently about this character.

In my opinion, the two characters - RK and Malik- have different layers to them. For me Malik is one of my favorite characters in this show. This man is a puzzle. Look at this character from the beginning. He took to the desolated lady at first glance. This man didn't know anything about the woman other than what he could see with his naked eyes. A young woman fleeing to save the life of her kids (one in the womb and the other in hand) and herself from the husband, a wretched man. Did he have ulterior motives in embracing them as his responsibility? Not at the outset. Would he have done the same to any other woman that he did to Pads and her family? To some extent, yes. He would have given anyone the required shelter and security. Would he have taken full responsibility as he did with Pads and her family? I am sure not. Did he do all this with a purpose? Would you call it love, compassion, humanity? He never expected anything in return for what he gave the three ladies (at least that was what was shown to us on the surface). May be there is some other hidden feelings for Pads that he never wants the world to know. But he has always maintained the decorum and never ever crossed the limits that he has drawn between them. He loves his family and is madly possessive of them. He could do anything to protect them. That was what was shown to us when Balraj tries to kill his wife and kids. Malik confronts the bad man and even creates a fake accident to prove the make-belief death of Pads and her kids so that the bad man closes Padmini and her kids' chapters in his life.

He gave them a new lease of life. He was always there to protect them. He loves his daughter Madhu more than anyone else. She was born amidst the film fraternity that he belonged to and was born in a very unconventional situation. The girl's life was at stake even before she was born. The sheer vulnerability, fight for existence and hope for survival of the child gave him all the courage in the world to protect her. He took responsibility of her entire life. He wants to protect her from every evil thing in life. He thought of himself as her savior. He did think that he was doing his job just beyond right until RK arrived in the horizon. So when RK entered Madhu's life and threw her life off balance, he got his first jolt. A besotted father that he is, could not take it when someone tried to mess up with his daughter's life. Still he didn't think that anyone could harm his princess. He even went to RK in the hope that RK would amend things in his daughter's life.
RK, on the other hand, didn't leave any stone unturned to spite Madhu. He maligned her character on the national TV for the world to see. He broke her engagement, made her a laughingstock, and made her future look bleak. RK backstabbed Malik and made a mockery of his daughter's life. Malik was totally consumed by the betrayal. As a father, it was very right of him to confront the wrongdoer, RK. The interesting fact here is when Malik wanted to hurt RK like how RK did hurt his daughter, RK actually didn't have any intention to hurt Malik. RK did warn Malik to back-off saying that the war was between him and MB. RK obviously didn't bother to understand the integrity of the relationships that provoked the outburst. In order to save himself, RK did not bother to stop his men from beating up the stunt master. Malik never thought of RK as his enemy. RK never had any enemity towards Malik. The situation played its game and now they are what they are to each other. Now who is the hero and who is the villain? Is Malik a villain because he is scheming to kill RK and get his daughter of his clutches? If yes, then what was RK when he left Malik beaten-up and oozing to death? What was Malik's crime there? If RK is a villain, then Malik is too. If Malik is a hero because he justifies his action for the sake of his daughter, then RK is a hero too. He didn't mean to hurt Malik but when he did realize that his act could cost Malik's life, he went all out to save his life at any cost. These two men have one thing in common. Their obsession over Madhu. RK has the mysterious obsession over her for which he is yet to give a name and yet to discover what and why of his junoon over her. Malik is obsessed with his daughter who is ethereal to him. She is sort of an angel to him. His princess daughter who he can never see in pain.
The fight is between these two men to prove their love for this woman. One wants to protect her and the other want to possess her. I like the way these characters are interwoven. 
As you sow so shall you reap! RK paid for what he did once and now it is Malik' turn. Let's see how Malik is going to pay for his current deed.



The beating and killing spree

The means of getting back or beating up was easy for RK because he is resourceful. He has men at his disposal who can do the job for him. And there's a protocol for that kind of men, how far they can go without taking law into their hands or at least how much of it they can get away from law, if caught. There the situation with RK was MOOLAH speaks, MOOLAH has style, MOOLAH has right.

See this is what I feel it.MOOLAH matters. Then how can it left out of the equation as to why a man can become cold-blooded all of a sudden.

Shamsher Malik is also a resourceful man in his own way. Has Muscle power...could easily beat up 4-5 men of RK's. He understands weapons being the stunts men. So natively speaking this man too has everything in his kitty. What he lacks is MONEY. Isn't that maddening then, that it caused him to lose his daughter the second time around. First time he gets beaten because of the collective security that RK has hired with his money. The second time, he is dying...RK uses money again to get his daughter.

That's why Malik has ANGER with RK's Money as we well. Do you remember the dialogue there"badi beti ke sapno ko apne mehenge jooton ke tale pees pees ke phaila diya"

I like the emphasis on Mehenge. He just did not say joote...if he was not affected by the MONEY issues. Because for Malik, more than RK, lack of money has become a bigger problem. May be he contemplated and thought, he is never gonna return 40 lakhs and it makes sense for him to end all this game by finishing the man himself.

You know I don't have any problem with anyone as wronged as Malik getting murderous instincts. For I believe in just one thing. If it takes courage to protect someone's life, it equally takes strength and courage to end someone's life. That courage should stem from a sense of purpose and ultimate knowledge which allows one to stay focussed and poised.

And Malik's purpose got tainted with his own personal issues with Money. And since he indulged in his sophistication of the reason as "for my daughter's honor" and because he does not speak beyond this, I have gone ahead and wanted to credit him in my own manner, with some romantic attributes and exploits to him. Because that he did in the past, when things did not go wrong for him.

However, now the romantic/heroic exploits are not just like the first time. Things have changed this time. He is not taking the cue that things are not going his way. He fails now.
Then can he just start questioning himself...where has it gone wrong ? But problem is just like his daughter, this man too doesn't think. They just act. Why is it difficult for these people to reason and not emotionally think about it ?

Through Malik, I see the ANGER of the UNDERBELLY. And it will never go away. One day they may become HAVEs  and then at that time they will gladly forget what it was to be a UNDERBELLY.

As a father...what good did Malik do ? Was he responsible ? Being from the film fraternity, what advice did he give to his NAIVE daughter ? How far would he allow his daughter to dog another powerful man from the Film Industry with clout. Wouldn't our fathers have advised us against it ? 
A man going as far as trying to kill another man for his daughter, in the first place will not allow his daughter to venture out alone entrusting with all decision making responsibilities on her baby shoulders. What advise had he given to his daughter. I am really interested to know there..


We will come to a happy conclusion that all this is a bad churning by CVs. But I will not say that. Because I saw Unbelievable acts from Malik from Day one...the way he saved, sacrificed his life, did not think of social repercussions at maintaining a family minus the marriage...so all of this is a juxtaposition from normalcy. He has been a Filmy types Hero with platonic love equations. He had been a soldier. A soldier is not always a father. 

There is never a bookish type of hero in real life. Every act of heroism needs a purpose. And with each win, we become heroes. Likewise we accept our set-backs too. We don't become villains.

And my thoughts just end in the middle of my thought process, because I do not know much of the underbelly society. I am sure they have very thin lines and can easily cross the paths between right and wrong on their path of survival...the daily grind of livelihood issues. 



Originally posted by DovesView

Originally posted by 0-SD-0


As a father...what good did Malik do ? Was he responsible ? Being from the film fraternity, what advice did he give to his NAIVE daughter ? How far would he allow his daughter to dog another powerful man from the Film Industry with clout. Wouldn't our fathers have advised us against it ?

I think MB is a story that actually is trying to bring out the notions/myths about the film industry - both positive and negative. Hence, unlike other fathers, he being part of the fraternity did not want his daughters to have a tainted view of the film industry and its people. The CVs probably tried to show that aspect of his fatherhood from a filmy background. I remember VD and DD talking in their interviews about how this show is all about what happens behind the scenes and the lives of people with filmy backdrop. But that is just my view Smile

Doves,

@bold. That is what attracted me and the other friend that I referred to in FQ's post today. And we both did read that, the PH will also show the underbelly society of the Film Industry.

We all know how the actors do not have any retirement benefits, even to the fag end of their lifem they need to work. Many die in poverty...
So the possible knowledge of underbelly ...the various associations, societies attracted us. Alas!!! The CVs are playing the hypocrisy game. They are shying away from showing us what they promised us in the outset. The only time the reference to any kind of society came when Roma approaches an association and asks financial AID for Malik's operation. Her request gets rejected on the grounds that Malik was not injured while the shooting was going on over the film sets. He got injured outside of production schedule with none of the production staff being involved, I loved that piece of information.

I so wished that Roma, Trishna, Padmini and Malik show more and more of these hardships...but all we see is the love story between the leads. Nevertheless Malik UNDERBELLY element appeals to me a lot.

Doesn't he then have every  reason to be angry in his situation just for his OWN SAKE and not just for his daughter. Life that we make around us is a myth. We like to live in our make-believe story of idealism and happiness. But Malik depicts all kind of reality. Just that he is not going to get successful...because he is so not meant to win. That's my socio-politico-economic point of view. 

But then if they did not show RK type of feel-good buff...how is the story gonna sell on TV ?

I will be happy, if Saurabh Tiwari under all mask of feel-good stuff, still throws at me some dialogues and scenes that will allow me to grab the meat from it and just revel in the info provided. 
By himbin

 http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3255317&TPN=11

 SD,

Went through all your posts and can only say that I concur with everything you said...
At this point its hard for me to think its just his fatherly emotions that drive Shamsher into
 this madness...Your theory of him wanting to be a knight, his need to be hero best explains
his actions.Even in those earlier episodes there was an eagerness in him in helping and reaching out to Padmini.I thought it could be due to his feelings towards her.In that case after all these years I don't see any sign of dissatisfaction at not being reciprocated the same manner by
Pads.He seems quite content with the way he is...being the Savior and protector of all the 
four otherwise helpless,vulnerable women.SO, this could just be what he actually wanted ...an opportunity to enact the role of a real life Hero...
                      As you say being unsuccessful in realizing his dreams, may be in the hands of a powerful man...loosing out to someone who is unworthy except for his film background despite him possessing worth could have made him prejudiced to people powerful like RK and all of his past grudges and bitterness could be finding their way out with the present scenario...RK provided an opportunity and he grabbed it to once again  live his dream of being the HERO and punishing the evil and unjust.
His denial in seeing and reasoning with anything else even after Padmini's attempts and his lack of finding any other ways to relieve his daughter before resorting to Murder adds to this theory...
I wouldn't undermine his fatherly affections but,all of these factors could also be playing a part in pushing him into this insane vengence...
It would be interesting if CV's weave a back story here and may be connect it with RK"s father and portray how broken dreams many times could lead to broken families in this dream world of cinema...

The way he was speaking at Visarjan were all filmy dialogues...Wasn't RK right when he says 
to Madhu you both talk alike...Shamsher's unrealistic ideology seemed to have rubbed on Madhu
to some extent  though she was fortunate to acquire the sensibility,proper judgement of right and wrong of her Mother too ...The same way RK likes to project himself as the Mogambo,the villain in real life, Shamsher wants to project himself as the Saviour ,the Hero in his real life...Time will test both to reveal who they actually are... I also don't understand how Mallik is helping his family by  killing and going to prison.He is leaving them to bear the backlash of the world...RK's fans and also entire film fraternity...
          So,all the points you made just explains why he went an extra mile in helping Padmini and also his fixated idea of saving his daughter...Smile Lastly...Hats off Clap to you for bringing in all these interesting dimensions for us to ponder...

PS..
Edited.
CV's have scope with trishna to showcase exploitation of the vulnerable  junior artists...They could weave her story along with the main protogonists and throw some light on the dirty inner
dealings of the film industry...would be an intriguing watch 


Hima,
Thanks a bunch!! You validated my thought process. Hug



Agree...if this was a written fiction, the writer would have spent considerable chapters on this man explaining his actions. Because the character deserves that much attention. Even if they are failures, his actions speak his mind. And later on they are going to affect his family, his daughter and the story.

As Story and screenplay on TV doesn't have much chance at being able to spend a lot of time on characters, at least giving meaty role to the supporting characters plot-wise becomes a fodder for all those who are not there just for the love story. The Love story is loved by all, but not all age groups would appreciate that without giving something else as well. And fortunately, the love story here is very complex one, involving the soon to be going lovers and whole spectrum of the show.

I always like, how great writers even highlight even the most ordinary character and encase him with a whole chapter when they become important to the plot. Btw did you read "Gora"  by R.N.Tagore. I will say ...read it. And also writers like Dickens...expecially dramas like Pickwick Papers who focus on all the other characters...so aptly fits TV if you ask me LOL. Then also I liked how the protagonists gets affected by this mentally retarded character in "Such a Long Journey". Its by Rohinton Mistry. I mean...all along, I knew supporting characters need to be given attention...but that was kind of like ...oh! yeah! the wise say so...but Dil hai ki maanta nahin...However my perspective changed completely when I read those three books. Since then to my already observant mind, a compassion for all characters filled up when reading or watching any creative piece. 

ETA: 
Trishna
Agree with you there. In trying to garner up the TV ratings, they took her and Roma to a back-seat. That has really hurt the actual story. I am really not sure, how they are going to bring her back. But loved when Malik talked about his Badi Beti. Atleast Trishna lives in the dialogue writers mind and is not a dead character now.

I also liked Deepali's frustration as failed actress when she said the other day ..."Baap ne career bigaad diya aur Bete ne zindagi"

They all could come back to RK-Madhu's story over the film-set as well. However the cheap gimmicks of the creatives force them to live their lives in the available sets of RK mansion and the Chawl. Too bad they cannot go real studios and shoot few scenes.
Episode 113 - Oct 30th 2012
Over Shamsher-RK confrontation scene
By Leela
>>>>The Shamsher scene probably had even more impact for RK than most because with Kukku as a rearing-father example, Shamsher being an obsessively murderously protective father-figure is likely to warm the cockles of RK's heart into unmerited leniency. Sincerely hope not, but 'provoked into murder-attempts' apparently is better or at least on par with 'provoked into vicious slander'.Ouch Sorry, really wish I had your aptitude for humour to put that better, but Mallick trying to murder someone for the third time even with the knowledge that the person has made a place in his daughter's heart has me completely confounded.Confused 

By FQ responding to Leela
>>>>Leela: the only thing that makes Malik acceptable if he is seen through the lens of the deewana, or the junoon. Which, RK does with great perspicacity, almost saintly detachment. Because guy had just been attacked. Thrice. Rk  may indeed be as superhuman as he claims to be.
Or, as you say, the Particular reasoning that drives Malik appeals to him -- that of the obsessively protective father, which appeals to the lad suffering from issues of  abandonment. Agree completely.

By SD - continuing on the "confounded state of the viewer + Shamsher"
>>>>>btw...the word confounded in that previous post of yours made me watch the scene again. And this is what I felt. I mean I understand his junooni love for his daughter...but then why the junooni madness when each time RK talks about him being his daughter's husband ? Now that puzzles me.

RK says, "Pativrata Patni ban gayi meri nazron mein."  Shamsher tries to assault him again. Look at the hatred or anger whatever it is he has for RK for becoming his daughter's husband.
But then RK's ringing voice and his piercing eyes stopped Shamsher in his madness track. Now Shammu is confounded. Don't know what Shammu must have read in that eyes. To me RK's eyes were quite fearless of Shammu and looking very bluntly at Shammu. He himself is guy with extreme emotions and may be Shammu got that feel. May be that confounded Shammu. No? Maybe that's why that fearlessness makes him talk about his like for daring feats (dileri) and then that blunt look at him from RK makes Shamsher go for revelation of his pain, that it hurts him because his daughter gave place to RK in her heart. Now how that make any sense. Scratching my head here !! Confused

FQ's response to that
>>>>To me it is the sexual component of marriage. RK knows and WE know it is non-existant (alas) but Malik doesn't.  Rk plays it for the reaction, Malik reacts. 
And read the exploration into Shamsher further - FODDER MATERIAL



Shamsher as the Father - Yet another Failure for a Father
By napstermonster
>>>>I'm brand new to the forum, and to this show (IPKKND is my old stomping ground) so please pardon this if its a repetition of something that has been observed. I have been watching older clips and what stuck me today, is that this show is basically about, parents,and rising above the crap they inflict on you.Perhaps even, about learning lessons on what not to do from their actions, and recovering from them--not your usual "maata-pitah ijjj alvayyyss mahaan" line. if you look at the damage that fathers have done--and in this context, I speak of all the fathers on this show, they have been directly responsible for the crippled psychological state that their kids are in. Damaged children through the choices of the fathers--and in this, aside from Madhu and RK I would include Sikki as well-- that seems to be the common denominator.

What I saw in Shamsher today was the final nail in the Daddy-Issues coffin for me. If he understands Madhu's feelings, and if he realizes that his daughter has fallen in love with this man, the fact that he is trying to kill RK is now because of his own pride, and hatred, indifference and ultimately, selfishness. Love plays no part in this--and I dont say that because the thought of hurting a man who looks like that is sacrilegious, though, of course, it is.

Each emotion that Shamser is feeling, that has led him to fashion a dildo out of ice is something every other horrible dad has felt in this show so far---Indiifference towards a very intense young son, something that RK's dead dad must have felt while killing himself, or the evil of Madhu's real dad, who hated his daughter for being born, or Kuku, the Colors Channel's bitch-slap-to-the-face answer to Walt Disney's wicked step-mother trope.

I just hope that the damage that his dad's abandonment has inflicted is not taken to the extreme here--that RK realizes that by trying to kill him, Shamsher is feeding his own ego and need for revenge, and not acting out of any concern for his daughter. Shamsher is as much of a damaging father figure now as RK's own was for RK. He needs to pay, even if that payment is by acknowledging that he has "lost" his little girl to the man he despises, and finding himself helpless in the face of her love, and regretful for having done any attempts in the first place. Then of course, he can use that dildo. 

FQ's response to napstermonster
>>> Agree. Agree. Agree. 

And thanks for bringing in poor Sikki and Kukku into the fold of this discussion.

Re Malik, however, I would also like you to consider the recent trauma he has been through: not just the physical hurt, but the ritual emasculation. He, a stunt man, who prides himself on his physical prowess, was beaten up to a ragged pulp. Then, and Malik sees and articulates this more than ANYONE else ( in fact, no one else even refers to it) RK takes his daughter. In Malik's eyes the imagery is that of rape. Of despoilation. Invasion. 

And this is a psychological assault on his masculinity. He reacts, not cleverly, but as directed by his testosterone, which has been  making idiots of men a lot longer than Malik has  quoth a filmy dialogue. Clearly, his decision making is severely affected by this loss of mental equilibrium.

Not surprising that he fashioned a knife to kill RK. First the huge-ass scimitar of serration in the hospital, and then the dildo of ice... He wants to physically assault RK, to penetrate his defenses in much the same way he has seen his daughter, and through her, himself despoiled.

Should we see this logic be ratified by RK? Ideally, no. But to RK this obsessive behaviour is justified, even honourable. I fear he won't be marching Malik off to the nearest shrink any time soon...

They're all pretty damaged, aren't they?

by SD in continuation
>>>>Leela, You might remember my post in Shamsher...the hero. FQ talks about the same. The masculinity complex...the physical prowess. I had given reasons while discussing with Doves how even the power/wealth status of RK unsettles Shamsher so much that he adds up all his failures of life and attributes it to the likes of RK. And FQ now has given an extension to the man about why he wants so much to lay his hands on this powerful man. Baser instincts in all of this through that sexual imagery. OMG!! this is what I depicted in his character, albeit through use of power and money factor which is another way to understand him, his basal way of looking at things, not capable of higher mental reasoning.

By FQ
>>>>SD Re Shamsher:  agree, the money, power, success and sexual conquest of his daughter-- all aspects of his emasculation. which also strips him of his honour ( perhaps he should have seen the RK's loan as a debt of honour according to some reckonings) and good sense. BUT he can argue that the debt would not exist except for RK's petty cruelty.
Episode 114 - 31st Oct 2012

Ignoring the Occam's Razor's principle.
Why is it difficult to understand RK ? Everyone seems to ponder.
And what an irony it is that those people who want to know him so much, when he explains him in simple words, people say "Apni Bakwaas Band karo!"  Why would they want to look for other explanations. 

Today Shamsher does that at one time. It was pathetic how Shamsher decided to just ignore what RK was saying about him respecting his actions as he understands a father's emotions. That Shamsher then had to be pulled back from his flying horses when RK recedes back to employ his histrionics and show him, if in all of this vendetta, does he actually think what his daughter would have to say for his actions. We have been all along saying this that Shamsher has lost it. So finally one human contact with his mind and actions has made him see sanity. Once I compared Shamsher to Raskolnikov. The act pleases him more than the consequences. That's what happened today. Shamsher suddenly realized what all of this means and where it was leading to.



Episode 116 - aired on 2nd Nov 2012

And a Hug with Sasurjee ????
Does RK look like a man who will hugs for good reasons ? He can give hugs to embellish his superstar image...but this one to one man talk on the balcony of a chawl, where surprisingly there is no CHAHAL PAHAL, no one is sleeping outside to hear anything.

by Zoya_Naziya
@ Hug scene: I don't know how you people have interpreted it, but this is jus my POv...During that scene, RK was expressionless and very blunt... It was more of a sealing a pact with a hug... It meant that we shall honor the cute secret between us... 

Zoya,

@bold.
Saw the same. Hence my reason to call him B grade star today. I was not ridiculing RK or VD. Infact he was the only one who redeemed the episode and made it worth watching for the entire time. By calling him that I was taking a dig at the writers what they are making their superstar do...like yesterday eavesdropping, then reconfirming what his naukar said and today very fast paced dialogues which seem like fitted scenes from space as the director was running out of time and he asked for racy screenplay.

The scene could have been classier through a handshake. But just for Madhu's girly sentiments, they showed HUG between two men who had huge differences and gussa. I mean please think about MANLY instincts as well. Men will just not hug like that especially persons with that egos on both sides. If they do then psychologically those two men become MOB characters who fight and hug for making up. Now seriously are those two in any way Mob characters.

The writers though writing for female audience, just because RK does not fall in the regular mould of married husband in saas bahu saazish drama, the manly traits should be retained. That is my grudge over the hug. Indian men do not have gay kind of reservations, but at the saeme time RK was neither before his filmi fraternity to put up a hug-act and nor was being a vain, superficial guy when he was genuinely apologizing to his Sasurjee. To hug act ki zaroorat nahin thi. Men do not change mannerisms in one day even if they have done soul-search in one day.

http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3269362&PID=68696818&#68696818

Sasurjee apni Biwi ko yahaan main chodke jaa raha hoon, uska dil mat todiye gaa

All along he was talking to Shamsher about "Your" daughter this and that, but as Biwi comes to them, RK looks at her and claims her back before Shamsher. This time he very authoritatively tells his sasurjee to take care of "His Wife". This dialogue was meant for both Shamsher and Madhu and more so to Madhu. That both should not forget that he still considers Madhu as his. Madhu was quite baffled at the sense of ownership shown by RK to her father and asking him to take care of her, as in let my biwi enjoy her stay here. Just moments (hours ago in RK mansion) she was crying that RK has insulted her dad when Dad wanted to mend relations with him. So RK was indirectly telling Madhu that he has now made up with Shamsher and he has upheld her heart.  

And the same dialogue is having another meaning for Shamsher. Shamsher is quite taken aback at the second half of sentence "Dil nahin todiye gaa". He knows what RK is saying, he was yet to absorb the shock that RK gave to him by acknowledging himself as "paapi" who deserves Shamsher's wrath and his attempts to save his daughter, but as Madhu comes up...and when RK says Apni Biwi...there is yet another shock to the inebriated Shamsher, Your daughter became Meri Biwi again and with that rise of RK again. Basically Shamsher understood that RK can apologize for his misdeeds but would not let go of his Biwi, which per Shamsher's plan, Madhu had to be freed from RK. 

RK is truly a master-mind. He always sees the big picture and is ready to pawn even himself towards the grander picture. To me his marriage proposal to Madhu in hospital and then following day, his early morning rationale verabtim to biwi remains EPIC to me. The amount of thinking he does for each of his actions and how he explains all of that to Madhu in two different tones...RK doesn't much waste time on execution, but thinks quite a lot before executing. No wonder this guy doesn't sleep well even under medication that should technically put him to dead sleep. He keeps on drifting and waking up...like listening to Madhu's sobs, feeling someone's (Madhu's) presence near him when he dozed off watching the movie and I...for the seduction scene... think Dips tries in the same manner, causing RK to hallucinate that she might be Madhu

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